The LMAF Interview: Holly Amatangelo

LMAF interviews peek into the lives and minds of some of the most compelling figures in the legal industry. Interviewees answer three questions from each of three categories—savvy, salty, and personal—to reveal unique insights and talents driving our field.

Holly Amatangelo

Platform

Holly Amatangelo is the Education Director for the Legal Marketing Association (LMA). For over a decade, Holly has steered LMA and the legal marketing and business development community through many of its biggest advances. These include the development and launch of the LMA Body of Knowledge, the industry’s foundational resource for professional development. The BoK defines the accepted domains, competencies and associated skill sets of the profession

A self-described lifetime learner, Holly also develops collaborations that advance learning across the legal industry, such as LMA’s collaborations with the Practicing Law Institute (PLI), the International Legal Technology Association (ILTA), Harvard Law School Executive Education and the International Bar Association, among others. Holly is also a former professional actor (especially comedy), and a marathoner, singer (not well!), and fan of not-so-intellectually-stimulating reality TV.

See Holly's LinkedIn photo carousel for the interview here.

Savvy

What's the most interesting or surprising thing you see emerging in the business of law? Definitely AI and its influence on and intersection with data. AI is happening so quickly that if you're not already understanding it, using it, and staying on top of it, then you're already behind, right?

With the avalanche of AI, data can be that game changer for law firms when it comes to things like influencing client strategy and services or creating efficiencies and supporting business decisions.

Firms that are putting both the people and the resources in place to focus on the integration of AI with data are setting the stage for others to follow.

It’s really interesting that we've seen a lot of new titles and job responsibilities emerge in [LMA] membership in those areas. Expanding marketing technology operations, data, intelligence, and analytics roles. We are seeing more directors of knowledge management or experience management.  Also business and competitive intelligence roles are expanding. Firms that are putting both the people and the resources in place to focus on the integration of AI with data are setting the stage for others to follow.

LMA has a roundtable coming up in June with ILTA. We're bringing together C-suite members from both associations to discuss the influence and impact of AI on various areas across firms including strategy, collaboration, and leadership.

What are clients asking for that you don't see law firms delivering yet? Running law firms like a business and truly seeing their clients as partners in that business. I know it would be beneficial for lawyers to get more general business training in law schools, and some law schools are starting to do that. But it’s an exception, not the norm.

We see so many senior leaders and lawyers with exceptional talent and expertise in their given areas. But they may not have that business background and training in areas like financial management, pricing, profitability, strategic planning, etc.

We want to build up the acumen of the business of law.

A holistic understanding of both the law and the business side of the law firm and the client’s business, that's a competitive advantage. This is why LMA is so pleased to partner with PLI to help build our members' skills in both the business of law and the latest trends and developments in legal practice. We want to build up the acumen of the business of law.

What is the best advice you've ever received? My dad was an amazing father and businessman. He was the son of Italian immigrants, first-generation American, grew up in the Pittsburgh steel mills, and used education to forge a different path for himself. His brothers did the same. He put himself through college, then through grad school, worked his way up in various organizations, and ultimately retired as the CEO of a finance company.

He had very strong opinions on things, but he also had a really inquisitive nature. He never settled for the status quo. Characteristics like integrity and perseverance were passed down to me from a very young age, because he very much believed that education is the key to everything in life.

The best advice he ever gave me was, “Holly you can be anything you want to be. You can do anything you want to do. You are smart. You can go get an education, and you can fly. Just go after it.” That was something he instilled in me at a very young age.

I never thought there was anything I couldn't do, because he had such a belief in me. Of course, I had to work hard for it. That was part of what he always taught me, too. You've got to work for literally everything you get. Nothing in life is free, but just go forward and don’t let anything or anyone stop you. You can do it. That has been such a gift to me. We sadly lost my dad in 2018, but his words of wisdom always stay with me.

Bonus Question

LMAF invites every guest to answer one question they weren’t asked but wish they had been. Holly used her bonus question here in the Savvy section.

What tools of the trade do you most love using in your day-to-day? The thing I love using most is LMA’s Body of Knowledge, which just went through its third reiteration. The BoK is the foundational resource for legal marketing and business development. Even though I was part of the team that created it, I leverage it every single day when talking to members or collaborating organizations, when doing research, when working with our own subject matter experts, or when planning programming or events. It is just such a phenomenal resource to create a roadmap for the legal marketing and business development profession.

I also use the supplemental resources that we've created to support the Body of Knowledge. Things like our competency analysis tools and our brand new CMO BoK Toolkit, which walks leaders through how to leverage the Body of Knowledge for new hires, performance management, and integrating and elevating teams. Everything from crafting a job description, to interviewing and onboarding, to team management, and career pathing. Those resources are all things I use in my day-to-day.

Salty

What words or phrase do you wish would go away from legal marketing or the business of law forever? “Seat at the table,” which I've been very much guilty of using in the past. It just needs to go away. The phrase implies that being a part of a strategic conversation is something you either need to be invited to or need to earn, and I don't think that's the case.

Legal marketers and people that work in this industry are some of the most intelligent, business-savvy people I've ever met. They are often leading that conversation at the table, whether they were “invited” to it or not. So I think we're already there. We just need to own that seat at the table, now.

What's the worst advice you've ever received? I am a very inquisitive person by nature (just like my dad). From the time I was young my mother and father said I was always asking questions. They thought I would make a great litigator some day. I believe that questions encourage curiosity.

Asking questions is part of critical thinking, understanding, exploration, and how we grow.

I like to think outside of the box and I don't necessarily always like to accept the status quo. So the worst advice I ever got was to stop asking questions. Now don’t get me wrong, there's definitely a time and place for listening, zipping it, and then moving on, but I truly believe asking questions is part of critical thinking, understanding, exploration, and how we grow.

So, that's advice I definitely didn’t enjoy. Education and learning is all about asking questions, right? You can't learn without asking questions. You can't be innovative without asking, “Well, what if?” Or “Have we tried this?” Or “How could we improve that?” That's how you build innovation, solve problems, and get to the next level.

What is your favorite guilty pleasure? This is so embarrassing, but I'm going to be honest. I've got two. The first is bad reality TV. Like, brainless reality television. Things like 90-Day Fiancé or Say Yes to the Dress or Beat Bobby Flay. I have a 4-year-old, so I very rarely ever get to ever watch bad TV. Usually Daniel Tiger or Mickey Mouse is on our television. So for the midnight insomnia, I will sometimes turn that on, or a really good crime documentary. I love a good 48 Hours mystery or Dateline, or a Netflix crime documentary. That sort of TV watching is one of my guilty pleasures.

Everybody, get on the dance floor!

The other thing is dancing and singing, and I'm not very good at either of them! But I can't help myself. If I hear music, my body starts to move and I start to sing along. I'm a hit at weddings—I’ll be like, “Everybody, get on the dance floor!” And I'm usually the first one out there.

 

Personal

What is something that a mentor gave or taught you, without which you might not be here now. I've used this example a few times in various situations because this individual was my manager at a previous employer. He was tough. He had a military background before he went into business, so he was not a sugar-coated kind of guy. He'd make a C [with his hand], and he'd be like, “Coachable moment coming at you. I'm gonna give you some feedback. Remember—feedback's a gift.” That notion of feedback as a gift was powerful. Every time you got feedback from him, it always made you better.

I really took those coachable moments to heart. They made me the individual that I am today. It's also something I like to pass on. I'm a big believer in feedback, positive, constructive, all-around 360 feedback. That's the only way we can grow is to learn about areas of opportunity and areas of strength. He also gave me a lot of opportunities because I was so open to those coachable moments. It allowed doors to open for me.

What would you be doing if you weren't working in the legal industry. In college I majored in English and theater. I was going to be a professional actor, and in high school I was voted most likely to be on Saturday Night Live. So if I were not working in legal, I would love to be on the stage of SNL doing comedy every week. I actually worked as a professional actor for about my first four to five years after college in a big show in Chicago called Tony ‘n Tina's Wedding. At the time it was the longest running show in Chicago. Then I went through the Second City Conservatory program and ultimately I worked for Second City for a few years as a performer in one of their corporate comedy divisions.

What is your favorite word or phrase, and why? Professionally, my favorite phrase is “yes, and.” That's from my background in Second City. It's all about collaboration and creativity.

One the first rules of improv is, you don’t say “no,” because then the scene ends right away. You accept what someone has said and build upon it to keep the scene moving. Someone says something outlandish like, “There's a monkey on your back.” You then say, “Yes, and he is my new intern. I am hoping you are ready to show him around the office!” You build on the story, right? You build on the scene.

So in my interactions I really try to come from a place of “yes, and” even if it's “Yes, and let's think about this more before we go forward with it.” Or “Yes, and how can we build upon it?” That’s so ingrained in me from my Second City training that it's carried over into my professional life, too.

And then, since 2020, when I finally became a mom, my favorite word is also “mommy.” That's my greatest joy. I can't hear it enough!